I wonder are TB users in effect beta-ing each new update ? New versions are coming out too often. In terms of functionality there's little if any real difference. In terms of appearance, the standard panels remain largely what they have been for years. Support for issues has just evaporated.

Your picture of disabled add-ons is illegible. Check for 78-compatible add-ons here.

Hello Sfhowes and all

There were so many deactivated add-ons that I had to reduce the page view to get them all onto one page for a screen shot.

Surprisingly, I was able to reinstall some of the add-ons even though they had not been updated recently and yet they worked again once reinstalled

But others could not be reinstalled or reinstalled but did not work.

Thanks for the list anyway.

I wonder are TB users in effect beta-ing each new update ? New versions are coming out too often. In terms of functionality there's little if any real difference. In terms of appearance, the standard panels remain largely what they have been for years. Support for issues has just evaporated.

There's a separate beta program. Perhaps you could join and contribute actionable feedback. The "too often" "new versions" are much needed updates to the latest major (ESR) product release (v78). Lots of bug fixes,security patches and improvements are getting rolled out. Folks are getting helped with their issues. Have you got a support request that hasn't been attended to?

@ Tamjk

Most people don't know what ESR stands for.

I found out that it means "Extended Support Release" and first came out in version 10 in 2012 !!!

So its just the same old excuses again. Another major version change (if it's not due to one thing, it's due to another).

Just imagine if every Windows update caused as much havoc to installed programs as TB does to add-ons.

Would you be happy then with Windows?

tamjk said

I wonder are TB users in effect beta-ing each new update ? New versions are coming out too often. In terms of functionality there's little if any real difference. In terms of appearance, the standard panels remain largely what they have been for years. Support for issues has just evaporated.

There's a separate beta program. Perhaps you could join and contribute actionable feedback. The "too often" "new versions" are much needed updates to the latest major (ESR) product release (v78). Lots of bug fixes,security patches and improvements are getting rolled out. Folks are getting helped with their issues. Have you got a support request that hasn't been attended to?

Yes. This fairly pertinent question remains ignored.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1309930

@SafeTex

I'm after leaving Windows for Ubuntu. Now I use 50GB of my 250GB SSD compared to ~ 170GB with Windows, not to mention all the other drags.

But I take your point. A package should be stable under version changes. I also accept Stans implied point about lack of (voluntary) laborers in the Thunderbird vineyard. But there shouldn't be any lack of volunteers to test new versions of Thunderbird to see if they fulfill basic requirements like supporting add-ons like Calendar in previous versions or handling mail data migrations across mail clients or op systems.

Yes. This fairly pertinent question remains ignored.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1309930 </blockquote>

That's odd, because it doesn't show in the list of unattended threads. Probably a bug in the forum software. No matter, I have responded to it now that you shared it's link. Next time, bump your thread if it goes unanswered for 24h by making a short reply. That will force it back in line of threads that need attention.

But there shouldn't be any lack of volunteers to test new versions of Thunderbird to see if they fulfill basic requirements like supporting add-ons like Calendar in previous versions or handling mail data migrations across mail clients or op systems.

The thing is, there are lots of folks in the beta program, but Thunderbird's development roadmap does not cater for compatibility with add-ons which are NOT part of the Thunderbird project. Independent add-on authors are entirely responsible for ensuring their add-ons are compatible with Thunderbird, not the other way around, but they are highly encouraged to collaborate with Tbird's dev community to convert their old add-ons for compatibility and compliance with Tbird's modern code base. Thunderbird is not getting built with high priority given to compatibility with old stagnated add-ons. With increasing concern for data security as internet technologies advance further, it is unrealstic to expect Thunderbird to achieve greater security while sticking to old legacy code.

In a recent thread, a question owner got alarmed over the permissions that add-ons they have used for years requested! They opted for an alternative client until "Thunderbird takes security seriously", amidst threats of seeking legal regress! All this came about because, after ironically sticking to an old and insecure version of Thunderbird for years due to add-on compatibiliy, they finally took the plunge to upgrade and encountered the scary request for permissions when they were reinstalling their favourite add-ons. A link to an article explaining those permissions only heightened their fear!

All in all, there's nothing Thunderbird's council can do if add-on authors abandon their own creations. Do you seriously expect Thunderbird's development to revolve around compatibility with these add-ons when there are bigger milestones to be achieved? For what it's worth, there is a plan to add native import/export facilities inspired by the popular Import Export Tools NG among other goodies. See https://developer.thunderbird.net/planning/roadmap for more.

That comparison with Windows 10 is laughable. Updates, leave alone upgrades, are wrecking havoc on performance, peripherals, software (especially security software) and hardware device drivers! This is my final word on this lest we turn this thread into a discussion about Thunderbird's development. This is honestly not the right place for holding such debates and keeping at it might just get it closed. I strongly disagree that "It's the add-ons that make it great". Far from it, but judging by the long list of add-ons SafeTex uses, I understand why he would claim so.

Such an "undiplomatic" answer just shows how far B has lost it. It makes no attempt to reach any compromise either with users or add-on developers fed up with this problem.

TB is pursuing some "far greater dream" and too bad if it is not one the users want eh?

tamjk said

Yes. This fairly pertinent question remains ignored.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1309930

That's odd, because it doesn't show in the list of unattended threads. Probably a bug in the forum software. No matter, I have responded to it now that you shared it's link. Next time, bump your thread if it goes unanswered for 24h by making a short reply. That will force it back in line of threads that need attention. </blockquote>

It was ignored as each post and you made a number was flagged as spam. Something about all those non Mozilla links I would suggest.

TB is pursuing some "far greater dream" and too bad if it is not one the users want eh?

Lets make a small detour that is very valid.

Thunderbird is built on the Mozilla platform. This is a very complex bit of code and in it's own way is as specific as the Windows operating system.

Thunderbird works in concert with this Mozilla platform, and that includes the addons environment is offers. more than 2 years ago Mozilla pulled the existing framework for addons out of their platform. Thunderbird fought a long delaying exercise, but ultimately could not continue to reinvent the wheel as more and more of the underlying platform simply evaporated. So they over the last two years moved to the same platform as Mozilla already did, but like all new things is was simply not adequate for the task at hand as Mozilla had largely pulled the teeth of interacting with the user, modifying the user interface elements and prevented access to the local disk to store stuff. They wanted extensions for web browsing, not a fat desktop client to manage mail. SO mail extensions were born to extend the meager Mozilla offering into something useful for mail. This is a vastly enhanced (scope wise) version of the programing interface offered by Mozilla in their framework. But it is entirely incompatible with the old way of doing things.

Sure there was going to be pain. I have experienced it myself. Some addon I had used for more than a decade did not make the move. Some folks got on their high horse and just walked. Change usually does that with some, it is an unfortunate reality. Others embraced that change in this case was inevitable. They rewrote some of the most complex addons for the new platform.

What was lost perhaps for ever was the thousands of written but not maintained addons that had continued for function with only minor issues for the past decade or so. From a support perspective I will be glad to see some of them gone. They did cause their own issues some of them. But the reality is the change had to occur and it has happened. I am not happy about it. I do not really think anyone is. But happen it had to. Now we can look forward to some stability as the extension part of the platform is now in Thunderbird code, not Mozillas.