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Thunderbird 128.4.1esr crashing @ EMPTY: no frame data available; EmptyMinidump (win10)

  • 2 odpowiedzi
  • 0 osób ma ten problem
  • 17 wyświetleń
  • Ostatnia odpowiedź od Felix

Felix
Felix
more options

Hi,

Thunderbird used to work fine for me, but since today I cannot start it anymore. It opens a blank window and freezes. I tried some basic stuff like restarting my PC, uninstalling and reinstalling Thunderbird and starting it with all add-ons disabled. While searching for similar errors I found some solutions that included deleting the parent.lock file from the profiles folder and deleting the windows cache in appdata/local/thunderbird/profiles, which also did not solve the issue for me. Any ideas?

The crash ID is: bp-6669759c-9a50-464b-a8cb-5126c0241105

And this is the crash report:

AdapterDeviceID: 0x1b06 AdapterDriverVersion: 32.0.15.6603 AdapterSubsysID: 374c1458 AdapterVendorID: 0x10de Add-ons: default-theme%40mozilla.org:1.3 AvailablePageFile: 58150670336 AvailablePhysicalMemory: 60356366336 AvailableVirtualMemory: 138521820581888 BackgroundTaskMode: 0 BlockedDllList: audiodevprops2.dll; BuildID: 20241101163316 CPUMicrocodeVersion: 0xa201016 ContentSandboxCapable: 1 ContentSandboxLevel: 1 ContentSandboxWin32kState: Win32k Lockdown enabled -- default value is true CrashTime: 1730838117 DOMFissionEnabled: 1 DOMIPCEnabled: 1 EMCheckCompatibility: true EventLoopNestingLevel: 1 GPUProcessLaunchCount: 6 GPUProcessStatus: Destroyed GpuSandboxLevel: 1 GraphicsCriticalError: |[0][GFX1-]: Fallback WR to SW-WR + D3D11 (t=9.26336) |[1][GFX1-]: Fallback SW-WR + D3D11 to SW-WR (t=10.5134) |[2][GFX1-]: Fallback remains SW-WR (t=11.9234) |[3][GFX1-]: Failed to initialize GPU process (t=11.9234) GraphicsNumActiveRenderers: 0 GraphicsNumRenderers: 1 HeadlessMode: 0 InstallTime: 1730835785 LastStartupWasCrash: 1 LauncherProcessState: 0 Notes: FP(D00-L1000-W0000100-T00) DWrite? DWrite+ WR? WR+ ProductID: {3550f703-e582-4d05-9a08-453d09bdfdc6} ProductName: Thunderbird QuotaManagerStorageIsNetworkResource: 0 ReleaseChannel: esr SafeMode: 0 SecondsSinceLastCrash: 328 StartupCacheValid: 0 StartupCrash: 0 StartupTime: 1730838115 SubmittedFrom: Client SystemMemoryUsePercentage: 12 TelemetryClientId: 5764b08b-977d-4db8-91a4-1861e6d9ae7d TelemetryEnvironment: {"build":{"applicationId":"{3550f703-e582-4d05-9a08-453d09bdfdc6}","applicationName":"Thunderbird","architecture":"x86-64","buildId":"20241101163316","version":"128.4.1","vendor":null,"displayVersion":"128.4.1esr","platformVersion":"128.4.0","xpcomAbi":"x86_64-msvc","updaterAvailable":true},"partner":{"distributionId":null,"distributionVersion":null,"partnerId":null,"distributor":null,"distributorChannel":null,"partnerNames":[]},"system":{"memoryMB":65450,"virtualMaxMB":134217728,"cpu":{"extensions":["hasMMX","hasSSE","hasSSE2","hasSSE3","hasSSSE3","hasSSE4A","hasSSE4_1","hasSSE4_2","hasAVX","hasAVX2","hasAES","hasUserCET"]},"os":{"name":"Windows_NT","version":"10.0","locale":"de-DE","servicePackMajor":0,"servicePackMinor":0,"windowsBuildNumber":22631,"windowsUBR":4317},"hdd":{"profile":{"model":null,"revision":null,"type":null},"binary":{"model":null,"revision":null,"type":null},"system":{"model":null,"revision":null,"type":null}},"gfx":{"D2DEnabled":true,"DWriteEnabled":true,"ContentBackend":"Skia","Headless":false,"EmbeddedInFirefoxReality":false,"TargetFrameRate":144,"adapters":[{"description":"NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti","vendorID":"0x10de","deviceID":"0x1b06","subsysID":"374c1458","RAM":11264,"driver":"C:\\WINDOWS\\System32\\DriverStore\\FileRepository\\nv_dispi.inf_amd64_ab3196e1830c9b6c\\nvldumdx.dll,C:\\WINDOWS\\System32\\DriverStore\\FileRepository\\nv_dispi.inf_amd64_ab3196e1830c9b6c\\nvldumdx.dll,C:\\WINDOWS\\System32\\DriverStore\\FileRepository\\nv_dispi.inf_amd64_ab3196e1830c9b6c\\nvldumdx.dll,C:\\WINDOWS\\System32\\DriverStore\\FileRepository\\nv_dispi.inf_amd64_ab3196e1830c9b6c\\nvldumdx.dll C:\\WINDOWS\\System32\\DriverStore\\FileRepository\\nv_dispi.inf_amd64_ab3196e1830c9b6c\\nvldumd.dll,C:\\WINDOWS\\System32\\DriverStore\\FileRepository\\nv_dispi.inf_amd64_ab3196e1830c9b6c\\nvldumd.dll,C:\\WINDOWS\\System32\\DriverStore\\FileRepository\\nv_dispi.inf_amd64_ab3196e1830c9b6c\\nvldumd.dll,C:\\WINDOWS\\System32\\DriverStore\\FileRepository\\nv_dispi.inf_amd64_ab3196e1830c9b6c\\nvldumd.dll","driverVendor":null,"driverVersion":"32.0.15.6603","driverDate":"10-15-2024","GPUActive":true}],"monitors":[{"screenWidth":2560,"screenHeight":1440,"refreshRate":144,"pseudoDisplay":false},{"screenWidth":1920,"screenHeight":1080,"refreshRate":60,"pseudoDisplay":false}],"features":{"compositor":"webrender_software","hwCompositing":{"status":"unavailable:FEATURE_FAILURE_GPU_PROCESS_ERROR"},"gpuProcess":{"status":"failed:Failed to initialize GPU process"},"webrender":{"status":"unavailable:FEATURE_FAILURE_GPU_PROCESS_ERROR"},"wrCompositor":{"status":"available"},"openglCompositing":{"status":"unused"},"omtp":{"status":"unused"},"d3d11":{"status":"unavailable:FEATURE_FAILURE_GPU_PROCESS_ERROR"},"d2d":{"status":"unavailable:FEATURE_FAILURE_GPU_PROCESS_ERROR","version":"1.1"}}},"appleModelId":null,"hasWinPackageId":false,"sec":{"antivirus":["Microsoft Defender Antivirus"],"antispyware":null,"firewall":["Windows-Firewall"]}},"settings":{"blocklistEnabled":true,"e10sEnabled":true,"e10sMultiProcesses":8,"fissionEnabled":true,"telemetryEnabled":false,"locale":"de","intl":{"requestedLocales":["de"],"availableLocales":["de","en-US"],"appLocales":["de","en-US"],"systemLocales":["de-DE","ru-RU"],"regionalPrefsLocales":["de-DE"],"acceptLanguages":["de","en-US","en"]},"update":{"channel":"esr","enabled":true,"autoDownload":true,"background":true},"userPrefs":{"browser.cache.disk.capacity":1048576,"browser.search.region":"DE","network.http.microsoft-entra-sso.enabled":false,"network.trr.strict_native_fallback":false,"widget.content.gtk-high-contrast.enabled":true},"sandbox":{"effectiveContentProcessLevel":1,"contentWin32kLockdownState":15},"launcherProcessState":0,"addonCompatibilityCheckEnabled":true,"isDefaultBrowser":null},"profile":{"creationDate":17276},"addons":{"activeAddons":{},"theme":{"id":"[email protected]","blocklisted":false,"description":"Dem Theme des Betriebssystems für Schaltflächen, Menüs und Fenster folgen.","name":"System-Theme – automatisch","userDisabled":false,"appDisabled":false,"version":"1.3","scope":4,"foreignInstall":false,"hasBinaryComponents":false,"installDay":18932,"updateDay":18932},"activeGMPlugins":{"dummy-gmp":{"version":"0.1","userDisabled":false,"applyBackgroundUpdates":1}}}} TelemetryServerURL: https://incoming-telemetry.thunderbird.net TelemetrySessionId: 68a8949d-205d-4b84-9a8e-1723870d2ab2 Throttleable: 1 TotalPageFile: 72924323840 TotalPhysicalMemory: 68629356544 TotalVirtualMemory: 140737488224256 UptimeTS: 15.35336 User32BeforeBlocklist: 1 Version: 128.4.1 Winsock_LSP: Hyper-V RAW : 2 : 34 : 1 : 1 : 0x20026 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll :  : 1234191b-4bf7-4ca7-86e0-dfd7c32b5445 

MSAFD-Tcpip [TCP/IPv6] : 2 : 23 : 1 : 6 : 0x20066 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll :  : f9eab0c0-26d4-11d0-bbbf-00aa006c34e4 
MSAFD-Tcpip [UDP/IPv6] : 2 : 23 : 2 : 17 : 0x20609 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll :  : f9eab0c0-26d4-11d0-bbbf-00aa006c34e4 
MSAFD-Tcpip [RAW/IPv6] : 2 : 23 : 3 : 0 : 0x20609 : 0xc : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll :  : f9eab0c0-26d4-11d0-bbbf-00aa006c34e4 
MSAFD-Tcpip [TCP/IP] : 2 : 2 : 1 : 6 : 0x20066 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll :  : e70f1aa0-ab8b-11cf-8ca3-00805f48a192 
MSAFD-Tcpip [UDP/IP] : 2 : 2 : 2 : 17 : 0x20609 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll :  : e70f1aa0-ab8b-11cf-8ca3-00805f48a192 
MSAFD-Tcpip [RAW/IP] : 2 : 2 : 3 : 0 : 0x20609 : 0xc : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll :  : e70f1aa0-ab8b-11cf-8ca3-00805f48a192 
RSVP-TCPv6-Dienstanbieter : 2 : 23 : 1 : 6 : 0x22066 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll :  : 9d60a9e0-337a-11d0-bd88-0000c082e69a 
RSVP-TCP-Dienstanbieter : 2 : 2 : 1 : 6 : 0x22066 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll :  : 9d60a9e0-337a-11d0-bd88-0000c082e69a 
RSVP-UDPv6-Dienstanbieter : 2 : 23 : 2 : 17 : 0x22609 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll :  : 9d60a9e0-337a-11d0-bd88-0000c082e69a 
RSVP-UDP-Dienstanbieter : 2 : 2 : 2 : 17 : 0x22609 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll :  : 9d60a9e0-337a-11d0-bd88-0000c082e69a 
AF_UNIX : 2 : 1 : 1 : 0 : 0x20026 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll :  : a00943d9-9c2e-4633-9b59-0057a3160994 
MSAFD L2CAP [Bluetooth] : 2 : 32 : 1 : 256 : 0x20006 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll :  : 9fc48064-7298-43e4-b7bd-181f2089792a 
MSAFD RfComm [Bluetooth] : 2 : 32 : 1 : 3 : 0x20026 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll :  : 9fc48064-7298-43e4-b7bd-181f2089792a

useragent_locale: de Diese Meldung enthält Informationen über den Status der Anwendung zum Zeitpunkt des Absturzes.

Thank you!

Hi, Thunderbird used to work fine for me, but since today I cannot start it anymore. It opens a blank window and freezes. I tried some basic stuff like restarting my PC, uninstalling and reinstalling Thunderbird and starting it with all add-ons disabled. While searching for similar errors I found some solutions that included deleting the parent.lock file from the profiles folder and deleting the windows cache in appdata/local/thunderbird/profiles, which also did not solve the issue for me. Any ideas? The crash ID is: bp-6669759c-9a50-464b-a8cb-5126c0241105 And this is the crash report: AdapterDeviceID: 0x1b06 AdapterDriverVersion: 32.0.15.6603 AdapterSubsysID: 374c1458 AdapterVendorID: 0x10de Add-ons: default-theme%40mozilla.org:1.3 AvailablePageFile: 58150670336 AvailablePhysicalMemory: 60356366336 AvailableVirtualMemory: 138521820581888 BackgroundTaskMode: 0 BlockedDllList: audiodevprops2.dll; BuildID: 20241101163316 CPUMicrocodeVersion: 0xa201016 ContentSandboxCapable: 1 ContentSandboxLevel: 1 ContentSandboxWin32kState: Win32k Lockdown enabled -- default value is true CrashTime: 1730838117 DOMFissionEnabled: 1 DOMIPCEnabled: 1 EMCheckCompatibility: true EventLoopNestingLevel: 1 GPUProcessLaunchCount: 6 GPUProcessStatus: Destroyed GpuSandboxLevel: 1 GraphicsCriticalError: |[0][GFX1-]: Fallback WR to SW-WR + D3D11 (t=9.26336) |[1][GFX1-]: Fallback SW-WR + D3D11 to SW-WR (t=10.5134) |[2][GFX1-]: Fallback remains SW-WR (t=11.9234) |[3][GFX1-]: Failed to initialize GPU process (t=11.9234) GraphicsNumActiveRenderers: 0 GraphicsNumRenderers: 1 HeadlessMode: 0 InstallTime: 1730835785 LastStartupWasCrash: 1 LauncherProcessState: 0 Notes: FP(D00-L1000-W0000100-T00) DWrite? DWrite+ WR? WR+ ProductID: {3550f703-e582-4d05-9a08-453d09bdfdc6} ProductName: Thunderbird QuotaManagerStorageIsNetworkResource: 0 ReleaseChannel: esr SafeMode: 0 SecondsSinceLastCrash: 328 StartupCacheValid: 0 StartupCrash: 0 StartupTime: 1730838115 SubmittedFrom: Client SystemMemoryUsePercentage: 12 TelemetryClientId: 5764b08b-977d-4db8-91a4-1861e6d9ae7d TelemetryEnvironment: {"build":{"applicationId":"{3550f703-e582-4d05-9a08-453d09bdfdc6}","applicationName":"Thunderbird","architecture":"x86-64","buildId":"20241101163316","version":"128.4.1","vendor":null,"displayVersion":"128.4.1esr","platformVersion":"128.4.0","xpcomAbi":"x86_64-msvc","updaterAvailable":true},"partner":{"distributionId":null,"distributionVersion":null,"partnerId":null,"distributor":null,"distributorChannel":null,"partnerNames":[]},"system":{"memoryMB":65450,"virtualMaxMB":134217728,"cpu":{"extensions":["hasMMX","hasSSE","hasSSE2","hasSSE3","hasSSSE3","hasSSE4A","hasSSE4_1","hasSSE4_2","hasAVX","hasAVX2","hasAES","hasUserCET"]},"os":{"name":"Windows_NT","version":"10.0","locale":"de-DE","servicePackMajor":0,"servicePackMinor":0,"windowsBuildNumber":22631,"windowsUBR":4317},"hdd":{"profile":{"model":null,"revision":null,"type":null},"binary":{"model":null,"revision":null,"type":null},"system":{"model":null,"revision":null,"type":null}},"gfx":{"D2DEnabled":true,"DWriteEnabled":true,"ContentBackend":"Skia","Headless":false,"EmbeddedInFirefoxReality":false,"TargetFrameRate":144,"adapters":[{"description":"NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti","vendorID":"0x10de","deviceID":"0x1b06","subsysID":"374c1458","RAM":11264,"driver":"C:\\WINDOWS\\System32\\DriverStore\\FileRepository\\nv_dispi.inf_amd64_ab3196e1830c9b6c\\nvldumdx.dll,C:\\WINDOWS\\System32\\DriverStore\\FileRepository\\nv_dispi.inf_amd64_ab3196e1830c9b6c\\nvldumdx.dll,C:\\WINDOWS\\System32\\DriverStore\\FileRepository\\nv_dispi.inf_amd64_ab3196e1830c9b6c\\nvldumdx.dll,C:\\WINDOWS\\System32\\DriverStore\\FileRepository\\nv_dispi.inf_amd64_ab3196e1830c9b6c\\nvldumdx.dll C:\\WINDOWS\\System32\\DriverStore\\FileRepository\\nv_dispi.inf_amd64_ab3196e1830c9b6c\\nvldumd.dll,C:\\WINDOWS\\System32\\DriverStore\\FileRepository\\nv_dispi.inf_amd64_ab3196e1830c9b6c\\nvldumd.dll,C:\\WINDOWS\\System32\\DriverStore\\FileRepository\\nv_dispi.inf_amd64_ab3196e1830c9b6c\\nvldumd.dll,C:\\WINDOWS\\System32\\DriverStore\\FileRepository\\nv_dispi.inf_amd64_ab3196e1830c9b6c\\nvldumd.dll","driverVendor":null,"driverVersion":"32.0.15.6603","driverDate":"10-15-2024","GPUActive":true}],"monitors":[{"screenWidth":2560,"screenHeight":1440,"refreshRate":144,"pseudoDisplay":false},{"screenWidth":1920,"screenHeight":1080,"refreshRate":60,"pseudoDisplay":false}],"features":{"compositor":"webrender_software","hwCompositing":{"status":"unavailable:FEATURE_FAILURE_GPU_PROCESS_ERROR"},"gpuProcess":{"status":"failed:Failed to initialize GPU process"},"webrender":{"status":"unavailable:FEATURE_FAILURE_GPU_PROCESS_ERROR"},"wrCompositor":{"status":"available"},"openglCompositing":{"status":"unused"},"omtp":{"status":"unused"},"d3d11":{"status":"unavailable:FEATURE_FAILURE_GPU_PROCESS_ERROR"},"d2d":{"status":"unavailable:FEATURE_FAILURE_GPU_PROCESS_ERROR","version":"1.1"}}},"appleModelId":null,"hasWinPackageId":false,"sec":{"antivirus":["Microsoft Defender Antivirus"],"antispyware":null,"firewall":["Windows-Firewall"]}},"settings":{"blocklistEnabled":true,"e10sEnabled":true,"e10sMultiProcesses":8,"fissionEnabled":true,"telemetryEnabled":false,"locale":"de","intl":{"requestedLocales":["de"],"availableLocales":["de","en-US"],"appLocales":["de","en-US"],"systemLocales":["de-DE","ru-RU"],"regionalPrefsLocales":["de-DE"],"acceptLanguages":["de","en-US","en"]},"update":{"channel":"esr","enabled":true,"autoDownload":true,"background":true},"userPrefs":{"browser.cache.disk.capacity":1048576,"browser.search.region":"DE","network.http.microsoft-entra-sso.enabled":false,"network.trr.strict_native_fallback":false,"widget.content.gtk-high-contrast.enabled":true},"sandbox":{"effectiveContentProcessLevel":1,"contentWin32kLockdownState":15},"launcherProcessState":0,"addonCompatibilityCheckEnabled":true,"isDefaultBrowser":null},"profile":{"creationDate":17276},"addons":{"activeAddons":{},"theme":{"id":"[email protected]","blocklisted":false,"description":"Dem Theme des Betriebssystems für Schaltflächen, Menüs und Fenster folgen.","name":"System-Theme – automatisch","userDisabled":false,"appDisabled":false,"version":"1.3","scope":4,"foreignInstall":false,"hasBinaryComponents":false,"installDay":18932,"updateDay":18932},"activeGMPlugins":{"dummy-gmp":{"version":"0.1","userDisabled":false,"applyBackgroundUpdates":1}}}} TelemetryServerURL: https://incoming-telemetry.thunderbird.net TelemetrySessionId: 68a8949d-205d-4b84-9a8e-1723870d2ab2 Throttleable: 1 TotalPageFile: 72924323840 TotalPhysicalMemory: 68629356544 TotalVirtualMemory: 140737488224256 UptimeTS: 15.35336 User32BeforeBlocklist: 1 Version: 128.4.1 Winsock_LSP: Hyper-V RAW : 2 : 34 : 1 : 1 : 0x20026 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll : : 1234191b-4bf7-4ca7-86e0-dfd7c32b5445 MSAFD-Tcpip [TCP/IPv6] : 2 : 23 : 1 : 6 : 0x20066 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll : : f9eab0c0-26d4-11d0-bbbf-00aa006c34e4 MSAFD-Tcpip [UDP/IPv6] : 2 : 23 : 2 : 17 : 0x20609 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll : : f9eab0c0-26d4-11d0-bbbf-00aa006c34e4 MSAFD-Tcpip [RAW/IPv6] : 2 : 23 : 3 : 0 : 0x20609 : 0xc : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll : : f9eab0c0-26d4-11d0-bbbf-00aa006c34e4 MSAFD-Tcpip [TCP/IP] : 2 : 2 : 1 : 6 : 0x20066 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll : : e70f1aa0-ab8b-11cf-8ca3-00805f48a192 MSAFD-Tcpip [UDP/IP] : 2 : 2 : 2 : 17 : 0x20609 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll : : e70f1aa0-ab8b-11cf-8ca3-00805f48a192 MSAFD-Tcpip [RAW/IP] : 2 : 2 : 3 : 0 : 0x20609 : 0xc : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll : : e70f1aa0-ab8b-11cf-8ca3-00805f48a192 RSVP-TCPv6-Dienstanbieter : 2 : 23 : 1 : 6 : 0x22066 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll : : 9d60a9e0-337a-11d0-bd88-0000c082e69a RSVP-TCP-Dienstanbieter : 2 : 2 : 1 : 6 : 0x22066 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll : : 9d60a9e0-337a-11d0-bd88-0000c082e69a RSVP-UDPv6-Dienstanbieter : 2 : 23 : 2 : 17 : 0x22609 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll : : 9d60a9e0-337a-11d0-bd88-0000c082e69a RSVP-UDP-Dienstanbieter : 2 : 2 : 2 : 17 : 0x22609 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll : : 9d60a9e0-337a-11d0-bd88-0000c082e69a AF_UNIX : 2 : 1 : 1 : 0 : 0x20026 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll : : a00943d9-9c2e-4633-9b59-0057a3160994 MSAFD L2CAP [Bluetooth] : 2 : 32 : 1 : 256 : 0x20006 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll : : 9fc48064-7298-43e4-b7bd-181f2089792a MSAFD RfComm [Bluetooth] : 2 : 32 : 1 : 3 : 0x20026 : 0x8 : %SystemRoot%\system32\mswsock.dll : : 9fc48064-7298-43e4-b7bd-181f2089792a useragent_locale: de Diese Meldung enthält Informationen über den Status der Anwendung zum Zeitpunkt des Absturzes. Thank you!

Zmodyfikowany przez Wayne Mery w dniu

Wszystkie odpowiedzi (2)

Wayne Mery
Wayne Mery
  • Moderator
  • Top 10 Contributor
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We don't have good insight to what is happening. So let's start with...

Does problem change?

Pomocne?

Felix
Felix Zadający pytanie
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Hi Wanye, Thanks for your reply! I just tried that, but it had the same result. Thunderbird opend a blank window, which I could not interact with, and shut down by itself after a few seconds. The only difference was that I did not get the report crash interface afterwards. I am clueless about what is happening, if you have any ideas how I can provide useful information, it would be very appreciated.

Pomocne?

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