Also, asking the user to 'fix it' by re-doing their signature in a different form is irrelevant for viewing past emails - Thunderbird still crashes for these.

Thunderbird is not invoking your Anti-Malware/Anti-Virus program to run. Your AV product is causing the interuption by scanning files and folders and also probably scanning incoming emails.

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Email_scanning_-_pros_and_cons http://kb.mozillazine.org/Thunderbird_:_FAQs_:_Anti-virus_Software

Toad-Hall, with all due respect, it's the standard Windows 10 Defender software... and tweaking that is not something users should have to do, especially when this was not a problem in Thunderbird 59.

Oh, and according to to Microsoft Community moderator, Windows Defender does NOT scan email applications anyway. It's something about Thunderbird.

Update: Installing AVG Free seems to have solved the issue. Even so, a lot of people aren't going to know that it's anti-malware executable killing Thunderbird's performance. That needs to be addressed anyway.

What is this anti malware you are talking about. That is where are you seeing this spike?

> That needs to be addressed anyway.

Yes, needs to be addressed by the AV vendor.

I've never understood why people think that just because a program is supposed to be a "good guy" and do good things, that it cannot adversely affect your system.

Wayne Mery said

> That needs to be addressed anyway. Yes, needs to be addressed by the AV vendor. I've never understood why people think that just because a program is supposed to be a "good guy" and do good things, that it cannot adversely affect your system.

Yeah, I'm aware of that, but this conflict isn't going to help Thunderbird's 1% usage rate (which is related to how much support allocation time it receives).

Wayne Mery said

> That needs to be addressed anyway. Yes, needs to be addressed by the AV vendor. I've never understood why people think that just because a program is supposed to be a "good guy" and do good things, that it cannot adversely affect your system.

On top of that, that website the other user posted above didn't speak a bit on how to tweak Windows Defender (standard on Windows 10) to stop auto-scanning files in Thunderbird. It didn't even link to a website that *may* have had the answer. when users look into this themselves, they will see the Microsoft forum post claiming Windows Defender *does not* do this. It's a catch 22.

I get the problems of no-cost-to-user open source development; but this prevented me from using thunderbird and my instant was to blame Thunderbird because it affected Thunderbird in a uniquely damaging way. It's easy to blame AV vendors and say they should take care of it, but meanwhile, for users who do not know about the cause, there is an email client they cannot use.

re :website the other user posted above didn't speak a bit on how to tweak Windows Defender (standard on Windows 10) to stop auto-scanning files in Thunderbird.

The links were really offering you some insight on the impact of AV programs and the pros and cons on email scanning.

Google is an excellent tool for searching about issues including about Windows 10 Defender. For example:

• https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-protection/windows-defender-antivirus/configure-real-time-protection-windows-defender-antivirus

There is alot on this topic, but I've quoted a couple of things that real time protection does: The Windows Defender Antivirus engine makes note of any file changes (file writes, such as moves, copies, or modifications) and general program activity (programs that are opened or running and that cause other programs to run) Downloaded files and attachments are automatically scanned. This operates in addition to the SmartScreen filter, which scans files before and during downloading

Toad-Hall said

re :website the other user posted above didn't speak a bit on how to tweak Windows Defender (standard on Windows 10) to stop auto-scanning files in Thunderbird. The links were really offering you some insight on the impact of AV programs and the pros and cons on email scanning. Google is an excellent tool for searching about issues including about Windows 10 Defender. For example:

• https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-protection/windows-defender-antivirus/configure-real-time-protection-windows-defender-antivirus

There is alot on this topic, but I've quoted a couple of things that real time protection does: The Windows Defender Antivirus engine makes note of any file changes (file writes, such as moves, copies, or modifications) and general program activity (programs that are opened or running and that cause other programs to run) Downloaded files and attachments are automatically scanned. This operates in addition to the SmartScreen filter, which scans files before and during downloading

I know, I'm sorry I was a little frustrated at the tone of the responses. AVG Free has its own problems (like hogging CPU usage) so I'm in between a rock and a hard place.

Same issue here, and appears to have started with Thunderbird 60.

Thunderbird version: 60.6.1 (64-bit) (Mac OS X Mojave)

Other:

ImapMail directory size: 21.65 GB Storage format: maildir (which has been working perfectly until now)

Symptom: Very frequent 15-20 second hangs (beach ball) while, at bottom left, status message: "[e-mail account] searching folder...".

Note that the *only* account ever displayed in the above status message is the 1st account listed in my Unified folder view (there are 4 other accounts in that view).

I first deleted my global-messages-db.sqlite in my profile, and re-started Thunderbird. No change.

I now associate these hangs with the "Unified" folder view.

I noticed that -- in Unified view -- switching between Inbox and Sent was often followed by a hang.

I've changed to the "All" view (View > Folders > All) and have not seen the hang since -- but only one morning of this test so far.

But I've done multiple A/B tests: switching back and forth from the All view to the Unified view (then clicking on the unified Inbox) reproduces the issue every time I've done that.

I definitely prefer the Unified view. So, if this issue really is associated with the Unified view in V60, I'd love to get it back!

TJPacific said

(Sorry, just edited my post to reflect A/B testing.)

TJPacific

Unified View is a virtual view. Perhaps the 'smart mailboxes' folder needs a clean up. Try this: Select 'Menu icon' > 'Folders' > 'All' Make hidden files and folders visible:

• http://kb.mozillazine.org/Show_hidden_files_and_folders

In Thunderbird

• Help > Troubleshooting Information
• click on 'Open Folder' button

• Close Thunderbird now - this is important.

• click on 'Mail' folder.
• locate and delete 'smart mailboxes' folder.

Restart Thunderbird.

• Select 'Menu icon' > 'Folders' > 'Unified'

This will recreate the 'smart mailboxes' folder Does the situation improve?

It did resolve the hanging (beach ball) issue, after waiting for the "smart mailboxes" directory to rebuild. So thank you for that!

However, it appears to have introduced two new issues. (To try to resolve, I went so far as to re-install Thunderbird with a fresh download, but that didn't help.)

Unified view displays top-level folder Inbox, then individual inboxes for the individual accounts -- the usual hierarchy display.

All of the following now happening in Unified view:

1) Only the individual inboxes for the individual accounts are working.

Before deleting the "smart mailboxes" directory, the top-level Inbox folder used to display all messages from all accounts in the hierarchy.

It no longer does that. Instead, it only displays the messages from the individual account Inbox folder on which I most recently clicked. (Also true for Sent folder in Unified view.)

2) (Here's an odd one:) If I click on the top-level Inbox folder (as above), then move my mouse over the listed messages (no clicking), all of the listings "touched" by the arrow / cursor go blank -- all text in every line touched disappears.

If I then click on an individual Inbox folder, we're back to normal. This is 100% repeatable, and I've restarted Thunderbird several times (in addition to the re-install) and no change.

I've uploaded a screenshot of this display phenomenon.

Other than that, all accounts are working, and nothing has been lost. But I'd love to get my top-level Inbox folder back.

Further detail: When I converted to the maildir storage format months ago, I created a fresh profile, recreated all of the IMAP accounts, and did fresh downloads of the entire e-mail histories from the servers (i.e., I did not attempt to migrate directly from mbox).

But I also stored this new profile in a new directory of my choice (for easier backups). Thus, this profile is not using all the "out of the box" directory locations of Thunderbird. But *everything* in the new profile is under one directory named "Thunderbird data". Just mentioning this in case Thunderbird might be looking for some default directory not in a profile. (??)

Finally, I only deleted the "smart mailboxes" folder. Is there some other normally hidden folder I should delete as well?

Thanks for the help, and any further ideas on this new stuff.

I think the real information here is the use of maildir.

Try turning it off. Then perhaps a bug might need to be filed if it works OK with out it.

I assume you read the disclaimer on maildir that is was buggy and not suitable for production use. If not I suggest you read the whole article now.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/maildir-thunderbird

I do not see any bug form smart folders already lodged. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?classification=Client%20Software&classification=Components&f1=short_desc&f2=OP&f3=short_desc&o1=nowordssubstr&o3=anywordssubstr&product=MailNews%20Core&product=Thunderbird&resolution=---&short_desc=maildir&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&list_id=14709825

I appreciate the suggestion, but the hangs with mbox were much more substantial and frequent. That's why I switched, and was very glad I did.

Maildir has been performing like a champ in every other respect. (Plus, it strikes me as a generally more sound "single file per message" strategy.)

If I'm pushing some size (or other) boundary with maildir, I'd like to explore that, rather than just "going back" and abandoning what has otherwise been working so well.

But, of course, I don't know how to do that "exploring"!

The issue at hand seems to be: What happened with the top-level Inbox folder when I deleted my "smart mailboxes"? It improved things somewhat, with the exception of the top-level Inbox.

I suppose I could create a new profile, and start again with maildir. Perhaps that would be an interesting test?

TJPacific said

I appreciate the suggestion, but the hangs with mbox were much more substantial and frequent. That's why I switched, and was very glad I did.

Did you prevent your anti virus from scanning your Thunderbird profile folder while it was in use. That is a very very common cause of hangs. Have you kept your mail folders in the realms of reality? something over 4Gb in size per folder is often a cause for excessive memory consumption and hangs. While Thunderbird has no hard limit on folder size, available memory can become a huge issue. Especially on a bargain basement windows 32bit laptop that can only address about 4gb of memory.

Maildir has been performing like a champ in every other respect. (Plus, it strikes me as a generally more sound "single file per message" strategy.)

And now I am suggesting it is not a champ. I have a bug in that list because selecting repair folder results is the whole folder being downloaded. That 3Gb download slowed things for a whole day. But you are the one having issues. Try the non buggy configuration and see if smart folder works.

If I'm pushing some size (or other) boundary with maildir, I'd like to explore that, rather than just "going back" and abandoning what has otherwise been working so well.

Well I am guessing it is the issue. The only way to know is try it the other way. That is all part of testing. It is a royal pain in the A.

But, of course, I don't know how to do that "exploring"!

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Testing:Memory_Usage_Problems

The issue at hand seems to be: What happened with the top-level Inbox folder when I deleted my "smart mailboxes"? It improved things somewhat, with the exception of the top-level Inbox.

And other not using maildir are not as far as I am aware experiencing issues. Personally I loath unified folders. But even with my "single" mildir IMAP test account among the other 20 or so I do not have issues with display of mail.

However it is the outstanding thing about your set up that is different. However you might want to try safe mode from the help menu. Perhaps you have an add-on that is problematical. That slips my mind as there a less of them now with issues since Thunderbird 60 forced a new version to work at all. Some that had not been updated since V2 off the board and add-on oddities dramatically dropped..

I suppose I could create a new profile, and start again with maildir. Perhaps that would be an interesting test?

An interesting test would be without maildir. to eliminate it or specifically make it the issue.

RESOLVED (but still unexplained)

Thank you for your reply. Much appreciated.

I created a fresh profile, set up all the e-mail accounts again, did an IMAP sync for all, and everything is working fine again with maildir. Three days so far of fine performance with all the e-mails going back to '09.

I concluded that I did something a little stupid with the old profile: put it into a directory that was subject to automated cloud backups.

The new profile is entirely local, and is being backed up locally only with Mac OS X Time machine.

The cloud backup? Dropbox. Other evidence that Dropbox couldn't handle it: when I created and populated the new profile via IMAP sync, MANY of my other Dropbox folders elsewhere were randomly deleted -- a huge mess restored only with Time Machine.

Apologies for any troubles to all, but lesson learned: don't assume cloud backups can keep up with hundreds or thousands of new file local file entries incurred when syncing large numbers of e-mails.

(Dropbox does allow one to restore deleted files and folders, but you have to already know exactly what you want to restore. If you need to restore hundreds or thousands of files or folders, well, best of luck getting back to the correct "point on time".)

Anyway, that's my "diagnosis", such as it is.

Thanks again.